House of Lords Speeches
Maiden Speech
Robert made his Maiden Speech in the House of Lords on the 3rd March, 1965, on the subject of "Youth and Social Responsibilities". The Debate lasted over five hours, from 15:05 to 20:15. Robert's eight minute contribution was from 16:14 to 16:22, 1140 words :-
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Youth And Social Responsibilities
3.5 p.m.
ROBERTSON OAKRIDGE
rose to call attention to the importance of giving to the youth of the nation greater opportunities for becoming aware of their social responsibilities; and to move for Papers. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I hope that you will forgive me if I start with a platitude. This country of ours stands to-day rather disconsolate, perhaps, and a bit bewildered about her future. We are very concerned about our economy, about our foreign affairs, about our defence, and debates on these subjects take place often in both Houses of Parliament. But is it not wise every now and then to remind ourselves that, however important these subjects are, what matters above all for our future and our future prosperity is what is going on among our youth and how their character is developing? As I said, that is a platitude; it is just a simple truth. But I must say that, thinking back on the manifestos that were issued during the General Election, re-reading, as I have done, the gracious Speech with which this Parliament was opened, I am left wondering whether this simple truth is really appreciated to the full extent it should be.
[ Cut to Robert's Maiden Speech in full]
4.14 p.m.
BADEN-POWELL
My Lords, I am most grateful to your Lordships to-day for allowing me to address you when I have been for so short a time a Member of your Lordships' House. Being a cautious man, it had not been my intention to address your Lordships until I had fully assimilated the customs and traditions of your Lordships' House. However, I rise to-day, with some trepidation, and I ask you to forgive me should I make too many blunders.
The young have always had this problem of adjusting from childhood and onwards. In the past, they have been helped by a stable and often strict home life. Subsequently, National Service helped them. They were subjected to two years of intensive discipline and taken away from their homes, often for the first time. This was a good idea, for one was away from parental influence; and there is no doubt that over the past twenty years there has been a great lessening of discipline in the home. I am not suggesting that we should return to National Service, because I feel that that would not be in the national interest and would be a retrograde step. But I feel that between the ages of 12 and 20 young people must be subject to some form of discipline; for in what other way will they be able to develop their self-discipline, except by having the example of discipline forced upon them? When they reach adolescence to-day, young people have a choice before them: either self-discipline or self-indulgence. With self-discipline they have a platform upon which they can build their whole future life. Self-indulgence can lead only to boredom, and to all the social evils which that involves.
The young to-day have a great interest in what goes on around them and in how the world ticks. Equally, they realise that we regard them as children. They want a social position; but we tend to ignore them and not to give them a social position. In response, they ignore us; and slowly we are finding that two separate societies are tending to build up—with us on the one hand, and them on the other; and the gulf is widening fast as a result of mutual suspicion and mutual mistrust.
Ten years ago young people were forced by National Service into a socially responsible position. They realised that they were helping the community, and that in so doing they were given a position in social life. To-day, the youngsters still want that position in social life; and I believe that they must, and will, have it. But they need help, and they need help given in the right way—namely, with patience, understanding and sincerity. Young people are most perceptive, and they are quick to suspect somebody who is insincere or patronising. They must have the means to develop their self-discipline, their self-reliance and their self-confidence. This must be done either by example at home, where most influence lies, or at school, or by the youth organi- sations to which they may belong. This could also be achieved, I think, if the recommendations of the Albemarle Committee were fully implemented. Voluntary youth organisations to-day certainly have ideas, and I believe that they have many of the answers to help the youth of to-day to find themselves. Indeed, I know that the Boy Scouts and the Girl Guides are actively looking into the 'seventies, so far as their ideas are concerned.
I should like to go on to the other point made by the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Oakridge, about the mass media of television, radio and newsreels. I believe they can help by showing parents what their responsibilities are to their children. They can help, too, by actively recruiting leaders for the youth organisations—because our youth organisations can gain their strength only by having leaders of the right calibre. They could also show what good is being done by young people. There are many young people to-day who are pulling their weight and who are being useful members of the community. I know that this does not quite fall in with other people's views. but it is certainly my view.
These mass media often sensationalise the occasional falls from grace of a few members of this great community of young people, but if they were to show the good side of the young people it would, I feel, be of great assistance. For young people are very avid for the publicity which is given to their age group. If it is good publicity they will take to it and will associate themselves with it. If it is bad publicity they will still do the same, but it can do incalculable harm. I am sure that these are some of the answers to our problems to-day; that is to say, discipline coupled with infinite love, on the one hand, and decent and good publicity, on the other.
One example of discipline which springs most readily to my mind takes place in the home of a very close friend of mine in Nottingham. He has taken part in what I believe has been a most successful experiment. Young people who have been remanded in custody, instead of being sent to a remand home, as is normally the case, for three weeks, are sent to a private home. To date, over seventy children have been dealt with in this way. Their home life was in many instances questionable, and often non-existent. It was wonderful to see the change which came over them in that three weeks. They arrived sullen, suspicious and morose, and at the end of the three weeks they were vivacious, full of life—in fact just normal children again. It was obvious that their whole outlook on life had been entirely changed. This was done first with firm discipline, but also with infinite love and understanding.
In my own experience I have found that the same rules apply just as much to older children. Subconsciously they want, and ask us to give them, our confidence, our understanding, our guidance, and, above all, an all-enveloping cloak of discipline. I am sure that if we would give them this they would come more than halfway to meet us, because they want a position in our society; they want to be called adults, or young adults, or something of that type. But, first, we must strike into the heart of the matter; and this is to be found in the home. Young children can have influences brought to bear on them either at school or in the youth organisation, but the greatest influence of all can be brought to bear in the home. If, by some means, we can persuade parents to help them there, then we shall have done a great deal of good.
4.22 p.m.
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Subsequent speakers commented thus :-
NORWICH
My Lords, I feel honoured to be in a position to be able to congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell, on his maiden speech. He bears a name that is associated with a genius for understanding and inspiring the young and helping them to grow up responsibly. The noble Lord who now bears the title clearly shows his family tradition, and has shown us by his speech that he has both a concern for, and is in sympathy with, the younger generation. It is a happy circumstance that he should have made his maiden speech on such a subject, and we have enjoyed the thoughtful and sincere contribution which he has made to this debate.
WISE
My Lords, we have just had two extraordinarily good speeches, and, in rising to make a short speech myself. I feel quite incapable of equalling them in any way. But, first of all, I wish to congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell, on his maiden speech. The right reverend Prelate the Lord Bishop of Norwich said with true Norfolk sincerity how much he welcomed that particular speech. The noble Lord bears a name which will be honoured both in military history and in history generally throughout the ages. We remember his father, who sat in this House; and some of us are old enough to remember his grandfather and what happened in the Boer War. For the reason of the past record of his family, we are glad to see the noble Lord here, and we can assure him that this is a very friendly place and that he will find a friendly welcome here.
AMORY
I record the pleasure I am sure all your Lordships felt in listening to the excellent maiden speech of my noble friend Lord Baden-Powell. His father was a respected Member of this House, and one we all regarded with deep affection. His grandfather, whom I had the privilege of knowing when I was a very young man—"B.-P."—founded that great movement which now comprises over 9,000,000 boys, scattered over almost every free country in the world, and, through the co-operation of that wonderful wife "B.-P.'s", Lady Baden-Powell, many millions of Guides, too. "B.-P.", by bringing that unique combination of gifts to his task, succeeded because he used the natural interests and enthusiasms of boys and harnessed them to the task of character building and training in unselfish service for others. "B.-P." was more interested in people than in theories and ideas. So I believe most boys are, too. They will respond best to personal leadership and personal guidance.
. . . we need to raise our sights, demand more from young people, and show our trust and goodwill in them and our confidence in their abilities—a point made excellently, I think, by my noble friend, Lord Baden-Powell.
SWANBOROUGH
I was very much moved when listening to the maiden speech of the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell. As he was speaking, I thought of his grandfather whom I was lucky enough to know well, and I recalled conversations with him. I felt how infinitely proud that grand old man would have been that his grandson could make the contribution we all heard today. In trying to give adulation to the grandson, I think I am perhaps saying something which would mean a very great deal to him—at any rate, I hope so.
SANDFORD
My Lords, I make this speech the thirteenth speech, and having heard the first twelve, I am alarmed at the thought that I have the responsibility to society for four of these young people. I find, unlike many noble Lords, that my attitude towards them is a rather variable one. At this time of the year when most of the young people are spending most of their waking hours out of the way at school, one's attitude towards them is of affection, fondness and high esteem. But I know only too well that in a few weeks' time, when all of them and all of their friends are all over the house all the time, I shall look at them with a rather more jaundiced despair, at any rate from time to time. I do not myself feel in any sort of position to criticise any parents in their handling of this very difficult problem. However, to-day we have to try to overcome these frailties and look at these young people as calmly and as evenly as we can.
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But I think there is a wider aspect here which has not been developed to-day, and that is the discharge of social responsibility through one's main occupation and job. There was a job widely advertised, which your Lordships will fairly easily recognise, and it goes like this
"Secure job. Excellent promotion. New sick pay scheme. Pension scheme. Free travel. Good sports and social facilities. Average earnings £13 16s. 5d."
That is a mere catalogue of what can be got out of a job, encouraging the very thing to which the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell, drew our attention—namely, the temptation to young people towards self-indulgence. That advertisement for a job is merely cataloguing all that can be got out of it, and says nothing whatever about its value, its importance, the demands it makes and the opportunities for social responsibility in it.
LYTTON
I had hoped to be present during the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell, but I was called out of the Chamber by somebody even younger than himself, and I returned to find his speech nearly over. So I do at least congratulate him on its brevity and on his youth, and on his name, which is as splendid as any other in history.
LONGFORD
I am sure we all feel that this debate has been rendered memorable by many speeches, including the maiden effort of the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell. One often listens to maiden speeches which are well-informed and graceful, but I do not remember, for a long time back, a maiden speech which was quite so moving as that of the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell.
ROBERTSON OAKRIDGE
It would be inappropriate of me to single out any particular noble Lord, save perhaps two. The first is the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell, who made such an excellent speech. I attended the funeral of that great man, his grandfather, buried amid lovely African countryside during the war. It was a funeral that was attended by a seemingly unending procession of young people, drawn from all over the world, giving their homage to a man who had done perhaps more for youth than anybody else. I am sure that he would have enjoyed this debate, and would have been well satisfied with the contribution made to it by his grandson.
There is only one other thing I want to say. I addressed my speech to the Government because it seemed to me that that is the normal function of a speech made in Parliament. But I was conscious all the time that I was working on it, and making it, that I was omitting the fact that there is a personal and individual responsibility here on all of us that we cannot get out of by passing it over, as it were, to the Government. I was very glad, therefore, that those who are really qualified to speak about this did so, notably the right reverend Prelate, the Lord Bishop of Norwich, and also the noble Lord, Lord Sandford, who reminded us not only that the young people have responsibilities, but that we have our own. And, surely, among them is to give generously of our affection, time, and indeed our money, to help the young people of to-day to form their own characters and to lead good lives. My Motion was not intended as a verdict on youth; it was intended to draw discussion. I hope your Lordships feel that it has done that, and I now ask for permission to withdraw it.
Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.
8.50 p.m.
5 hours 45 minutes.
405 paragraphs
43,543 words
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The complete debate may be found in the Library - see Tab on the Left.
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As far as can be found, that was the only speach that Robert made in the House of Lords.
He did attend quite a few debates in the first year or so, but it seems he never went there again.
But during the debate on 14 June 1977 on the "Sexual Offences (Amendment) Bill", he had asked a friend to read out a letter he had written :-
Hansard - House of Lords - Volume 384
3.53 p.m.
Second Reading debate resumed.
5.26 p.m.
Lord CLIFFORD of CHUDLEIGH
My Lords, because of the several organisations with which I am associated and which have approached me on the subject of this Bill, and perhaps because this very Friday I am opening the new local headquarters of the district Boy Scouts of which I am President, I have decided to put the case, as I see it, for those youth organisations. Rather than putting it all on to myself I have here a letter, which I should like to quote to your Lordships, from the noble Lord, Lord Baden-Powell, who cannot be here. It refers peculiarly to the Boy Scouts. This is what he says:
"Apart from the moral, religious and psychological issues involved in this attempt to lower the age of consent for male homosexual acts, there is the consideration of the effect on the young people themselves. The older age training section of the Scouts' Association — the Venture Scouts section — is involved with young people of both sexes between 15 and 20 years of age. I am a Venture Scout leader and I am aware that young people today are very much more sexually aware and frank than at any time in the past hundred years. They are not the little innocents we would believe them to be. However, the effect on these young people when an approach has been made to them by an older person—a not uncommon experience—is traumatic. They are not mature enough to know how to cope with and rebuff the advance, particularly if the approach has conic from someone physically stronger than themselves. I have seen young men return from such an encounter white with fright and, in an alarming number of instances, they have known they have only been saved by their assailant's ultimate fear of the law as it now stands.
It is sometimes argued that some homosexuals are not attracted to younger men. That may be so, but there are enough who are to make even the present law inadequate. These young people, after such an encounter, affect much bravado in front of their peers but it does have a deep and lasting impression on them beyond reasonable bounds, as they are haunted by the fear of further approaches which they will not be able to contain. I have known such an approach to have had a positively detrimental effect on an individual's work and social relationships for a considerable while afterwards. I have not yet observed, thank God ! what effect is made on the young person when the approach has been pressed to a conclusion. In those circumstances, who is to say if consent is freely given or given under duress? The awful effects on that young person's mind are beyond comprehension. These observations are not mine alone, but are also those of virtually every other Venture Scout leader with whom I have discussed this problem. We all agree that these approaches by older men to our members and the consequent lasting traumas are the single most recurring problem we face as leaders of that age group".
I think that that is a better way of expressing what I want to say.
The only other point that I should like to make is that what I find so repulsive nowadays is the arrogance of these homosexuals, especially in their publications, and I am looking forward to hearing the answer of the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Greenwich, to the question of the noble Earl, Lord Halsbury, as to whether these publications will be allowed to continue.
5.31 p.m.
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